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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3494
   |
Posted - 2015.05.01 00:57:36 -
[1] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:I would like to have a constructive dialog around what can be done to combat risk-aversion in our pvp pilots in New Eden. What I observe is that we regularly decry risk-aversion and others unwillingness to undock and bring a fight, while on the other hand refusing to confront the elephant in the room when it comes to root cause... Ship replacement insurance. Please consider this, and provide constructive feedback. F
How about you formulate your thoughts here instead of trying to feed the view counter on your blog?
Not to mention, the existence of consequences are what makes EVE a good game. Making them smaller would make EVE less good. |
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3495
|
Posted - 2015.05.01 08:14:31 -
[2] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Because if every EVE PVP-er were only willing to lose 2-3 ships in a whole month like yourself, New Eden would be a boring place indeed.
I don't want to detract from your point. But this is not the case. Because kills are counted more than once. So if you mostly fly in fleets where every kill ends up on 20+ peoples killboards, then well that is "40-60" killboard "stats" per month per 2-3 actual ships lost. To get a real accurate view of "kills" each kill should be counted only once. Either final blow or top damage. True, and Feyd can tell us himself if in his PVP career he was mostly flying in 20+ man fleets or not. But my point was more about the losses. We all love kills, but the simple truth is that for every kill there must be a loss. If you want kills, you should have the courtesy to offer your opponents some chance of killing you as well. Else we'd all be in exactly the situation that Feyd describes in his blog: people blue-balling eachother all the time, ship-spinning until we find those few opportunities to gank a straggler, or someone that is so bored he decides to just yolo his ship. So, let's say it'd make sense to engage with at least a 25% chance to die, because a fair 50% is too risky and everybody prefers winning? That means that Feyd is either: 1) A manly risk-taker, but not very active (10 fights a month x 25% chance of dying = his 2.5 losses) 2) A risk-averse carebear, who only fights if he's 90%+ sure of winning In either case, it would appear he has not much experience in taking risks in PVP.
As mentioned, that's the nature of fleet warfare. Hell, even when fleets decisively lose battles, a lot of people usually make it home. Also, there's risk aversion and then there's picking fights carefully - not quite the same thing. Consider the character of Gus Fring in Breaking Bad. Would you call him risk averse? He's extremely cautious, but takes big risks after carefully weighing the situation.
Also, the idea of treating kills once wouldn't work - it negates everyone else's contribution. However, it wouldn't be difficult to build a killboard that attached "1 kill" to every kill and split out credit. In which case you'd glean a little extra info, but it would lead to silly things like "0.5% of an Ishtar killmail".
And of course that system **still** wouldn't credit the people most important for getting those kills - FCs, scouts, combat probers, boosters, logi, etc. A pure logi pilot could be insanely prolific and extremely competent, but that system or the current one still leaves his KBs red.
in short, KBs don't tell you squat except "hes blown **** up before" or "he's died before". |
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3495
|
Posted - 2015.05.01 08:38:44 -
[3] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:in short, KBs don't tell you squat except "hes blown **** up before" or "he's died before". Nope. Kill count can be misleading, but losses are straightforward: if you lose just 2 ships/month, you're rarely putting your ship in real danger. Doesn't get any clearer than that. If you're not putting your ship in danger, you're personal contribution to internet space explosions is poor. Unless, of course, you're one of those heroic space truckers that spend their time buying/hauling/fitting ships for others to have fun with!
You're drastically oversimplifying things to try to make them fit your preference. That's like sorting the most aggressive footballers by goals missed. Some are just more accurate than others. |
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3495
|
Posted - 2015.05.01 09:29:54 -
[4] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:You're drastically oversimplifying things to try to make them fit your preference. That's like sorting the most aggressive footballers by goals missed. Some are just more accurate than others. LOL, no. I'm afraid you missed the point entirely. To use your example, I'm talking about professional footballers that decide to drop their premier league team and go play with amateurs, because they can't take the pressure. And then complain that the amateurs are risk-averse because they don't enjoy being dunked by them every single time.
Wat. That isn't even close to the discussion. You're now referring to one specific case, and not talking in general terms like everyone else here. I assure you, plenty of people don't even enter places like highsec or lowsec and have those "crazy efficient" records. That's hardly stepping down a league to fight people who can't fight back. It's just a mark of someone who carefully considers when to engage, and doesn't leave openings for others to take advantage of. An aware, cautious player. |
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3496
|
Posted - 2015.05.01 18:04:01 -
[5] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:That's hardly stepping down a league to fight people who can't fight back. It's just a mark of someone who carefully considers when to engage, and doesn't leave openings for others to take advantage of. An aware, cautious player. What would be a simple catch-all term for that sort of player. Hmm, maybe "risk averse"? 
Like mentioned before, there is a large difference between risk averse and cautious. Consider Gus Fring. A risk averse player is strongly unlikely to take any risks. A cautious player will take them after weighing them. |
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3496
|
Posted - 2015.05.01 18:15:10 -
[6] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
A few years ago we shut down all caldari ice mining in highsec with just 30 guys.
Definitely a lot more than 30, going by the size and activity of the jabber channel back when I was scouting ice belts for y'all. Maybe 30 or so were more active than the others, but you're exaggerating. |
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3500
|
Posted - 2015.05.02 01:46:10 -
[7] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:
A: You get $40, for certain.
B: You take a gamble, and you get $100 or $0 with probabilities 0.5/0.5.
Weak example, because there's a correct choice. the gamble. |
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3501
|
Posted - 2015.05.02 13:41:45 -
[8] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Bad case for eve. Smart people will realize in 1-2 attempts that SP is the biggest force multiplier that prevents all combat PvP success until you have at least 50-70 million of it, or another SP wall leaping mechanic such as being the 5th wheel in a fleet that doesn't need you, but can help you leap the SP wall.
That's not even remotely true. The biggest multiplier in EVE is by far game knowledge. Knowing how to utilize all the tools at your fingertips. If you have 1m SP and your opponent has 100m, but you know how to probe, use dscan, what to expect from each ship type, and how to fit, and he does not, you will almost certainly win.
Actually doing damage to them is just the formality at the end of a long chain of observing, trap laying and outmaneuvering. The best way to be successful is to educate yourself on the way EVE works. Repetition is pretty much the best way to do that, once you get the basics down. |
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3501
|
Posted - 2015.05.03 03:22:14 -
[9] - Quote
Aoife Fraoch wrote:Perhaps we should just start using SISI for MOBA style consequence less PVP instead? At least sharding won't damage the economy like ramping up the Isk faucets.
Even MOBAs impose a time penalty on the loser and resource gain on the winner. |
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3501
|
Posted - 2015.05.03 03:28:59 -
[10] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:"Time is money"? Yeah, I guess so, but it's about fifty cents a day. For you maybe, but an hour of my time is worth considerably more. Oh and your employer is over-paying you by quite a bit. 
Hurf Blurf you so clever
He's talking about the price of a subscription, genius. |
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3501
|
Posted - 2015.05.03 03:41:28 -
[11] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:BTW, insulting another player's intelligence and then using "you" vs. "your" is particularly ironic.
Yeah, because the tone of that line that opens with "Hurf Blurf" is so obviously not dripping with sarcasm. |
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3501
|
Posted - 2015.05.03 14:27:55 -
[12] - Quote
Anuri Suaraj wrote:
Also, I don't get the children-adults analogy. What does the general process of human aging have to do with EVE?
Older people have a lot more experience to draw from and generally have a better idea of what they're doing than someone fresh out of school. Also, EVE is hardly unique in its time = progression mechanic. Archeage, for one, has some sort of labor system that is similar to SP but applied differently.
And trust me, you don't need SP to be competitive. Heck, I've watched kin-tanked thrashers solo ratting tengus. Game knowledge is the game changer. I promise any experienced PvPer could swap characters with a legitimate newbie and win a fight between them. |
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3506
|
Posted - 2015.05.04 23:06:34 -
[13] - Quote
God, this thread has gone way down the rabbit hole. Y'all are crazy to keep this going.
Oh, and Basil, you're very wrong. |
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